One More Move and Psychology with Dr. Joe Currier

Uncategorized Oct 18, 2022

Welcome to the One More Move Blog. We believe that in every situation, there's always one more move. The context of the One More Move Blog is based on a painting entitled Checkmate by Moritz Retzsch. Two opponents are facing each other across the chessboard. On one side of the painting is the enemy, and on the other side is a young man. The young man thought that he was losing and his soul was at stake. An angel watches over the young man. One day a Chess Master studies the painting in the Louvre Museum in Paris. He studies the arrangement of the pieces left on the chess board.
Suddenly, he realizes that the King has one more move, the young man will win and be Saved.
Visit The Story page for the full story about the painting.

Dr. Joe Currier is a psychologist with 50 years of professional experience in a variety of roles. For over 35 years he has been a management consultant involved in the selection, training, and advisement of executives in the private and public sectors. In the private and public sectors, Dr. Joe is an executive coach, team building facilitator, workshop trainer, and special problems consultant for a wide variety of organizations such as the Allegis Group, the Baltimore Ravens NFL franchise, Mobil Oil, KPMG, and many other dynamic groups. Here's Stephan.


Stephan Mardyks:
When you see this painting, what's on your mind?

Dr. Joe Currier:
When I first look at the painting, it's more of what I feel than what I think. When I looked, there's something very visceral about the painting. Could you ever imagine walking into a room and immediately sensing some type of danger? That's what I sense when I first look at this picture. I get a sense of evil on one side and innocence on the other. Again, these are more feelings than thoughts, but almost a "cunning control" on the left versus "a sense of resignation" on the right with this young man. The fact that the combatant... I'm going to use that term because I see a type of almost war hat and this red feather. He's holding a white chess piece while the young man's hand is empty. It seems like a very painful image when I see one side holding a piece, and the other's hand is empty.

This young man also mirrors a sense of hopelessness, like he has no next move. And yet, the adult male is backed by a vicious animal to his right with his claws and a head of a skull, maybe their last victim. I get this sense of this pair almost ready to pounce. And the younger man is in the view of a gentle angel where I see they're very spiritual. It also seems somewhat that the angel seems to be an observer and I don't get a sense of protector. I get a sense of innocence, again. So to me, the "at-risk" part of the painting is that the menacing figure seems sure, almost cocky, about victory. Gloating as if he's won. But, could there be one more move for the boy?

Stephan Mardyks:
That the question. So talk to me about this angel. What do you see?

Dr. Joe Currier:
A sense of innocence. I get a sense of spirituality, purity. In the presence of this man with this thing to his right, I sense danger.
And I'm wondering if this young man in his innocence is waiting too long. He needs to make a move.

Stephan Mardyks:
And the angel feels passive?

Dr. Joe Currier:
Yes. If you notice his hands are gently set down. Trusting, pure, but passive.

Stephan Mardyks:
On the other hand, could it be that the angel knows that the young man is going to win and has this tranquility knowing the results?

Dr. Joe Currier:
Absolutely. God, the ultimate truth, will always be there. What I may be observing, and what I feel uncomfortable about is what is happening in the moment versus when I see the angel, it's almost saying, "Trust, there will be more moves." Whether it's from this young man or from the Lord himself.

Stephan Mardyks:
Well said. It reminds me of your term, "ANT." Can you describe what, as a psychologist, this young man may going through in his head?

Dr. Joe Currier:
The concept of ANTs is frankly something that is part of our survival mechanism. It's called the "automatic negative thoughts." It's a part of us helping to survive. One of the things as a psychologist that I've learned is, it's one thing to survive, it's another thing to prosper. With the spiritual partnership of this angel, I get the sense that there will be simplicity, sanctity. Where the young man right now is, I wonder if he doesn't have the automatic negative thoughts seeing what's in front of him, and he's not seeing a way out of this mess. He may be feeling defeated in the moment.

Stephan Mardyks:
How does someone fight those negative thoughts? There's scientific data saying we have 60,000 negative thoughts a day.

Dr. Joe Currier:
One of the things that we've seen in the recent psychology around positive psychology is (and it sounds "cute", but it really isn't. I believe this). You can fight, you can flee, or you can flow. When we think of ANTs, it's in this "fight or flight" mechanism that we've learned over the many centuries from our ancestors. The negative side of this is the triggers in the moment. But the reality is, you can fight, flee, or you can flow. It's this inner sense. That's what I think the angel may be doing. His breathing would be exactly with the rhythm of this inner peace of knowing what flow is. Because again, that would be a mirror image of sanctity.

Stephan Mardyks:
You are also an executive coach. Do you come across many clients who, like this man, feel like they're out of hope?

Dr. Joe Currier:
I would say that if I had a hundred people come in the door over a period of time, I would be safe to say at least 75 deal with hopelessness. Most of us have been taught through the school of hard knocks, through things like shame and criticism. We tend to be prepared for the worst case scenario. And at times I think may feel a sense of defeat like this young man. Does he feel defeat? I don't know, but he certainly would have a sense of caution, of worry, of pause. I think the key here would be when you are mind, body, and spirit, this idea of flow comes in. One of the at risk points for us as modern-day combatants if we were in a situation like this, like the checkmate here, we can fight, we can flee. But the reality is, we're taught, we're trained historically this fight-flight reaction to resolve the situation.

We mistakenly believe, "You either win or you lose." You do something in the moment. The problem today is, this chess game goes on day after day. You'll see people who would be modern-day travel warriors coming home from work and saying, "This traffic is killing me." Now, reality is in time it will, because the body is responding with the ANTs, automatic negative thinking, and it triggers certain things inside of the body automatically. Your breath becomes shallow, you lose oxygen going through the brain which mean we start closing our thinking down, and we start looking for reactions. Not responses, reactions. I propose to you that means the more negative side. We often end up with conflict resolution. Trying to find conflict resolution with people who matter to us because we react so strongly.

"I'm coming home from work. You're always late.", "What do you mean? I'm doing this for you." And we get into this negativity rather than sitting down. We see the angel with a sense of peace and saying, "You know what? There may be one more move here. It's called listening." So, in response to the Checkmate painting, that one more move sometimes is simply instead of trying to defend and prove your point, sometimes we simply stop and listen. Stephen Covey, who I know you were so familiar with, had the fifth habit. "Seek first to understand then to be understood."

I think you would agree with me that in between stimulus and response is the reality of a choice. The choices that I make. Rather than just react and be trapped by somebody else's move, I bring a move that will serve me and the situation and those who are important to me in relationships. For example, making sure that I have awareness of the different choices that I can make so that I can think wisely. A very, very dear friend of mine who passed away almost a year and a half ago was a survivor to Holocaust, Dr. Les Frankford. And he one day said to me, I was driving a little bit like a road warrior and somebody was moving in my space and he goes, "Joe, why would you allow him to do that to you?" And I said, "Why, Leslie?

He said, "I would ask you not to do that." And then he said something that confused me, and frankly over the years it took me a little while to digest, "Joe, everything I do, I do because it makes me feel good." And I had a sense that there was somewhat egocentric or it was a conflict. There was a conflict issue here. He didn't lean into conflict, or he stepped away from it versus every time I allow somebody else to pull my strings. Then I thought: "Am I going to play this game in relation to this combatant, or am I going to have this inner sense of peace?" I think is he's sitting here simply waiting peacefully?

Stephan Mardyks:
If you entered this painting right now, and this young man was asking you, "What should I do?" What is your advice? What would you say?

Dr. Joe Currier:
That's a great question. I would first be very wary of whatever I said in the presence of this man. Whatever is next to him...whether it's more symbolic, or whether it would be a vicious dog. I hope that I could make some eye contact with this young man and give him communication through my facial set. Body language is as powerful, if not more powerful, than words. My first hope would be to communicate to him using body language that my shoulders would not be up ready to go, as if I'm ready to go to combat.

Like the angel I'm going to come in with a sense of peace, a sense of confidence, and maybe transfer that sense to him. He may be worrying, wondering, et cetera. And yet for me to be able to put my hand on his shoulder also and just smile and say, "This looks like an interesting situation. I'm going to sit here and I'm anxious to see what you do next because wow, what an opportunity."

Stephan Mardyks:
That's beautiful. I think about this fresh vantage people may have. How do you maintain that perspective in life, your professional situation, personal situation, at home, or at work?

Dr. Joe Currier:
One is the word relationship. I would first start with making sure that people build a solid relationship with their own authentic self. For example with this young man, if we were talking privately, could he could take time out from this interaction here? Some people do this when they come in to therapy. My question would be to help them to get in touch with the four primary emotions and one would be fear. Fear is not a bad thing. It's a human experience. If he's carrying any sense of loss of self, any humiliation or concern that says, 'boy, I hope you don't laugh at me.' The type of thing a child will see often with a parent.

I hope that I could help him to have some sense of self authenticity, and set one primary goal. That is, "how are you doing?" I would hope he'd look up and say, "The best I can." The minute he does that, by the way, we've already started to win at this game whatever it might be. He wouldn't be defeated by the game of life. What did you learn from this? Before we get into the wisdom of the next move that was taught later on about this painting...right now, what did you learn at this moment? Did you come in and give it the very best effort? If you do that, I'm already happy. I think this angel would be smiling and saying, "Is that something or what?"

I think the key is for us not to diminish ourselves. I don't want this young man to start defeating himself, as if he's now sitting on the other side of the table with the glare of the other man. Whatever it might be...from a mock to a victory dance. He wants to shame this boy. The reality is that if the boy's done his best, he's already won. Doing my best means that I've already met many of the mission that the Lord has given me. He gives me certain skills. It doesn't mean I'm winning all the time, but it means I'm coming with authenticity and I'm coming with the best I can. I'm not here to diminish anybody else.

The primary emotions: joy and happiness are first, and there's a thousand words for it. There's all different gradations of it. And then there's sadness and pain. And these two, by the way, I think historically are meant for us to connect. We celebrate best together, we bury our dead together. The next two are fear and anger, which are two survival emotions. All four of these are primary. By the term primary I mean, whether you're tall or short, white or black, where you come from on this beautiful planet of ours: we all experience these. We often have learned that when you're defeated you should be ashamed of yourself or wonder, "What could I have done?" But, it's the sense of "I've been diminished" versus "No, I've learned." And for the next moment, I'm going to be even better at what I do in this thing called life.

Stephan Mardyks:
What's the fourth emotion?

Dr. Joe Currier:
The fourth emotion is anger. Unfortunately, that is where many very strong women and men lean. They deflect instead of letting the vulnerability of the pain, sadness, or fear show up. We all know that real men and powerful women, God forbid you do something like cry. Shame on you! We often deflect into anger. That's why we'll see the next best move, one more move in a relationship is to not deflect into the anger because you were embarrassed or uncomfortable or felt criticized. But rather, you come in with some sense of inner peace and joy or maybe share, "Are you saying you don't love me?" The sense of fear and "wow, what can I do in order to let that melt like a big piece of ice?"

Stephan Mardyks:
In your life, what would you say was the most significant or defining moment?

Dr. Joe Currier:
I've had an interesting journey. I'm nearly 80 years old now and I've had some tremendous blessed highs and I've had some things starting with my dad's death when I was four years old he was in a car accident and killed. I think one of the things is that I've had three bouts of cancer. The last bout was the most dramatic. It was not too long ago. One of the reasons I say it was so impacting, and especially in the concept of One More Move, is that it was a technical success. They had to eventually remove my bladder. The chemotherapy didn't work. And they removed the diseased bladder, they created what is called a stoma and they also attached an external bag. So, it was a "success", but I kept losing weight. I couldn't walk. I couldn't sit up and I lost 40 pounds in a matter of almost 10 days.

My surgeon finally said to me, his words are, "Joe. Your body is not waking up." And what he meant by that was until your body adapts to the changes with this bag and how it gets rid of some of the waste material, until it wakes up, I can't do anything else for you. One of the things that led me into the awareness of One More Move is, I don't know if I mentioned to you, but I have a love doctor. I became aware of it when I was in the hospital and that is my dear wife of 55 years. We've been together since 1962. She was by my side morning, noon, and night while my medical team took care of me. And she just simply was there and I think in a very prayerful, spiritual way. When I realized, and I started to say to her that I may be having to say goodbye to you, because again, my body, I just didn't know what to do to get it to get better.

She leaned over and she said, "I'm not ready to say goodbye to you." And then she said the magical words of being my love doctor. She said, "I'm taking you home." And she told the hospital, "Look, if there's nothing that you can do here." She asked the dear friend of ours, Jim Davis, who's the co-founder of the Allegis Group. He's a man I've been a partner to him for years with the Allegis Group as the chief learning officer. Jim had a private plane. And Carolyn, he got me on this jet and he took me home. And she said to me, "Joe, I'm going to ask you to do a few things now." And she said, "It's almost like a prescription." She said, "Do you remember what Dr. Les said to you when he was in the camps and imprisoned as a young boy who was being..." He was in the studies by Mengele on identical twins.

"He said to you, Joe..." In the morning I would get up and there was a little crack in the wall of this awful barracks that he was housed. I would look for the sun. Every morning I would look for the sun and Carolyn says, "I want to give you a prescription. I want to help you. Every morning, I'm going to get you near the window in our house and I want you to do what Les advised you." I started by sitting, and eventually standing because Les would stand there and he would raise his arms. And he said, "I stand tall. I stand whole. I stand well and I stand free." And I started to do that. That was the prescription. That was the prescription that she gave me. And frankly, my love doctor got me back and one of the things with One More Move I said to myself, "Joe, look at the window that you look out in life to greet the sun."

Whereas Les was a young boy under horrific conditions, man is to stand tall, whole, and well and free. I started to feel a sense of joy and my one more move was, what do I have to worry about? If I go back to the picture of the angel, I guess I'm also looking at the angel saying to this young boy, "What do you really have to worry about? Victory or loss?" Meaning that the chess game. And therefore this sense of hopelessness, I had one more move that I just decided that I wasn't going to let it be a part of me. I made sure that I listened to my good love doctor and it saved my life, I think. And it also saved our relationship so that we could, in this life, celebrate one more day and beyond.

Stephan Mardyks:
You talk about how important it is to dance with your love doctor, right?

Dr. Joe Currier:
We learned that. We had always lived in the spirit, but had never quite said the words. We were unfortunate enough to be there in New York City when 9/11 came. I was doing something, a workshop in a hotel right next to it. Someone came in and stopped my workshop early in the morning. They said, "A small plane hit the towers, so stop the session." I walked out and I looked. I met a rabbi ,and he said to me that he worked with people who had been in tragedy. They had given him a saying and I said, "Rabbi, I don't read or speak Hebrew." When he said it says, "Don't ever stop dancing." And that had been a spirit that my wife and I had had. We made the promise that day in the hospital, or when I got home and that is, "Joe, good times and bad, we're never going to stop dancing." In reminiscent of all of the things I was just mentioning. It was my One More Move. We, literally, at times when I was able to stay in the move, we would literally hold each other and move to a gentle, just a gentle movement of life, a celebration.

Stephan Mardyks:
I'm so moved by your story. Do you see Carolyn as being your love doctor?

Dr. Joe Currier:
Oh yeah. She's been there. We continue to dance. Literally and figuratively with kindness and gentleness. And of course, her service to me, just making sure when I was not well, it was like... By the way, again, I'm coming back to this picture for some reason. She was standing near like the angel. She didn't do all that much, but her presence when I would look, I knew I was safe.

Stephan Mardyks:
You went to seminary when you were young?

Dr. Joe Currier:
I was without a father as a young boy. This is in the late 1940s, when the men were coming home from World War II in America. Many of them, unfortunately, were abusive and I heard my friends come out and say horrible things. The one group of men in my community, and I know there's some bad things that have happened over the years, but I was very blessed to have mentorship from priests. As a very young boy, I was an altar boy. These men, when I was a little bit of a mischievous kid and when I got in trouble, they'd come and rescue me. Or because of the schools, they guided me. And as I went through up towards high school, I began to wonder if maybe I had a vocation and that I might want to spend my life as a priest and be really in the spiritual side of life and what that vocation could do.

I spoke to this one priest, Father Hendrick. He was like an uncle, a father to me. And he said to me, "Joe, it's a very lonely life as you get older." He said his brothers had children, et cetera, but he said it's a beautiful life. I had been dating and had a girlfriend. I remember sitting with her and talking, and eventually I decided I needed to pursue this life. I went on to join. I went to what they called Modern Christie seminary. It was in New York state. It was classic. You would wake up early in the morning and there would be chanting in the chapel and we would have prayers to be sang, and we dressed as priests. By the way, when I would walk the campus if people were there, they would think you were a priest. And I got a sense of the spiritual life and I really truly loved it.

I was probably more at peace at that point in my life than ever before. And I got injured and had to go to the hospital for very minor surgery and then some recovery. While I was home recovering, I decided I don't know if I really wanted to do this. And I worked for about six months deciding, and I finally went back and I told them I think not. I actually joined the Marine Corps, went into the service into the military. I stopped, but I've certainly maintained my spirituality. Even though I'm not obviously in that vocation. I think of one of my dear uncles who has since passed, uncle Mario, he once said to me as I was going into psychology he says, "I got it." He says, "You can still hear confessions, but dance with that beautiful young girlfriend of yours."

And it was true, all right. Because as you know in therapy, life coaching and whatever, there's a sense of that. I try to bring that sense of spirituality and belief into the office or wherever I am working. So yes, the spiritual I did cross. One of my dear friends who I was in the seminary with continued to be a priest, eventually joined the Marine Corps and I saw him as a chaplain. And to this day we kid. I said to my wife recently when Father Paul was here, "Carolyn, the honest reason I left town was because they weren't going to let me be a cardinal, just a bishop...and I wasn't settling." And he would look at Carolyn and say, "How do you put up with this poor guy?"

Stephan Mardyks:
Talk to us about your professional "one more move" and any success you've seen with it.

Dr. Joe Currier:
I've been so blessed number one to be on a journey with so many different people. They allow me to come in and walk the path with them, and my job is to help guide them or at least be a witness. Some of the best things I would ever do as a therapist is listen, listen, listen. Try to get a sense and give them feedback. With more than 50 years under my belt, we would be here for a very long time if I told you some of the blessings I've had. Something came up very recently that actually came as a kind of springboard from my own cancer. One of the organizations that I'm a consultant with they said, "Doc, would you give a call and bring this guy in? He's having a lot of problems and he had some questions for you."

And I said, "Sure." He said, "By the way, one of the reasons is because not only you're a clinical psychologist and a life coach but because of your cancer." And I said, "Absolutely." So this gentleman comes. He was young, happily married, recently blessed with a beautiful child, little girl, very successful in business, promising career, and all of a sudden he gets punched by life. He started out with some very painful headaches, graduated them into having to take some medications, and eventually they found as a brain tumor and they said it was about the size of a lemon. And this is about six months from today where we're talking. He said to me, "Dr. Joe." He said, "I have a question for you."

"I need you to please give me an honest response, too." And I said, "What is it?" I'm going to call him Ted, that's not his name. He said, "What should I do to prepare for my surgery?" His really risky surgery was still six weeks away. And he said, "What did you do to prepare for your surgery?" And I said to him, "Ted, First I want to talk straight to you. You and I can't prepare for the surgery. We're not physicians. Your medical team will do that and they'll do a cracker jack job on that. What I'm going to suggest to you is three questions. Can you laugh? Can you love? And can you dance?"

There's probably a fourth question. "And will you love over the next six weeks prior to surgery? Because there's research here, there's many people I could refer you to." A guy named Dr. Bernie Siegel, Yale oncologist, years ago wrote a book, Love, Medicine and Miracles. He used to get troubled, tongue in cheek. "What the heck's wrong with people? I diagnose their cancer, they ask me what their prognosis is, I say the statistics show six months, they live for a year. Some five, some 10, and some beyond. How dare they?" And he just kind of smiles. What I realized through his research years ago and many people who have combated the same thing you and I have just been going through, is when I laugh and when I love and when I dance, my white cell count, my blood cells, my warrior cells, they explode, they become powerful.

And I prepare for my surgery. Whatever's going to happen with the trauma to my body, it's literally medicine for the body. So that's what I did to prepare. And that's one more move and that is in the good times and the bad times. I mentioned about Carolyn and I can never afford to stop dancing. And I told him when I was in critical condition, my key was I couldn't hear the music, but I watched Carolyn and gradually I saw one more move. And that is, I asked her at times and I said I asked her, "Carolyn, can you carry this for me?' And she said, "What? Of course." I said, "My worry, it's not serving me." And in that spirit I knew what Dr. Siegel had taught. My white blood cell count would come down when I would start with what you said before, automatic negative thoughts.

What if? What next? And I said, "Can you carry my worries for me?" And she said, "Of course." I was with this young man and I watched him and his wife actually called me after our third or fourth or fifth session. And she said, "What did you do to my husband?" And I thought she was mad at me at first. She said, "He's always been afraid of life and then when the tragedy come about this brain tumor, he doesn't seem frightened anymore." And I said to her, "We talked about it and I asked him the questions and he seems like he's taking the medicine and it looks like it's going." I said, "I told her about my love doctor. You might want to go to medical school real quick as you can hold onto this good man." And by the way, he's doing very, very well. This surgery went better than expected. So the doctors did do their homework and he's been doing his. That's one example. There are others, but I think that would be one that comes to mind first, Stephan.

Stephan Mardyks:
He's doing well today?

Dr. Joe Currier:
He's doing very, very well. I still see him, the surgery went well. They were afraid he wouldn't be able to talk, that some of his thinking would be disturbed, because as you know it's surgery and the brain is so delicate. All of that is going very well. There is some cancer there. They said there are probably some of these cells there. But he says, "that's tomorrow." He says one of the things that he and I... What I had asked him to look at as part of his treatment was we live in a now you and I, we don't know what we're going to get. It was like the angel in the picture. I don't know what next moves are going to be but I know right now she's telling me or he's telling me we're okay. And that's how he feels. Ted is going forward, he's back to work by the way, and I'm hoping he's going to change his life as he goes forward. Never stop dancing.

Stephan Mardyks:
Is there one more move you wish you would've made?

Dr. Joe Currier:
There's probably so many because I've learned to the school of hard knocks at times and I've also sat with so many people who I say I know why the path I was on was very similar to them. So yes, I'm going to just mention just two. After my dad was killed, for a short time I was in an orphanage and these people were really very, very good to me. And they would say to me, "Joe, would you like this? Or like that?", "No, thank you. I'm okay." I learned to live with the reality of "I don't need that," At some point someone gave me some insight and said, "I think you're not okay in those situations but you're afraid to be disappointed. So you don't ask." And I says, "Well." And she said to me, "And that's why you're a psychologist."

You're here to serve us. I want to know if I could serve you. That connected with something that happened in my own family with my older brother. Years ago he had gotten divorced. It was very painful and his wife was like a sister to me. And I tried to work and be a good brother to both of them. He remarried eventually some time after and had agreed with his then wife that they would not have any children. She said she didn't want any kids, he already had two beautiful kids who were moving into adulthood. There were stories I was making up in my mind. And she got pregnant without letting him know, stop taking any precautions and she had a baby and he was traumatized and troubled and said "I don't want anything to do with this kid."

And I wrote him a note first and I started to go to see him and I said, "You can't do that. This child's going to have your name and your face and like with dad, you can't abandon him." And he got really angry with me. I was very judgmental. I felt like a victim and I told him, "Take a hike." And I walked away and I didn't see him for years. He by the way saw the baby, they did get divorced, but he was part of raising this little boy, this third child of his and all was good. And someplace along the road, and I'll bet you that it was more than 10 years that I didn't speak to him thinking he owed me an apology. And we were doing some work with somebody and all of a sudden this light bulb went off.

And I thought, "I wonder if he didn't want to have this little boy because..." I made one more move. I got on a plane. I flew to Albany where he lives and I knocked on his door and I said, "Look, the first thing is." I said, "Jim." I said, "Who's going to give or who's going to get the hug here. That's my first question. And then secondly I want to apologize to you." I said, "These years of silence." I said, "Have just not been okay and I was into this victim thinking and I think I owe you an apology." And he said, "Well, you can hold that for a second." He said, "Yes, but who gives or gets. I'm going to give you a big hug." And he did. And there was a great ending to that dark spot of my life where I would push a brother out and I made one more move.

Looking back, I should have said to him like I do in therapy. "Jim, help me. Tell me more. What's going on here?" I didn't. I started to tell the story. Remember in the absence of information, we make up stories in our mind. Instead of doing what I do as a psychologist. Now, my wife sometimes had said to me historical, "Boy, you're so smart how you reach out." I say, "Carolyn, psychology? Me? I listen. And if I listen deeply, again, they're bringing me the truth." I wasn't listening to my brother. I wasn't really empathizing with him. I immediately went into a judgment of an abandoned child myself. In some level with my father's death I felt abandoned. My mother disappeared for a while, I'm in an orphanage. And when they would come and say to me, "How can I help you?" I'd say, "I'm fine." I remember going we were in a Catholic church and we were up in a balcony and they were saying as little kids and staying at Anthony's orphanage, "Santa's coming."

And I kept saying to the one guy who used to take care of us, "I don't care about Santa. I want my mother. When's my mother coming?" I'm four and a half years old at that point, not quite five. And I went back to that a little bit with my brother I think identifying with this child and not really asking him, are you okay? I became the victim and it was part of my growth again. And the one more move that I realized was the courage to go up there and he could have poked me in the nose or told me to get lost but I said, let me knock and see what happens. What's on the other side of the door and it's opened up probably another 20 years of our life as brothers. I talk to him every week. He's still up in Albany and he is older than me and he is not as healthy as he could be but what a blessing, one more move.

Stephan Mardyks:
What is your next one more move?

Dr. Joe Currier:
Well, I'm going to keep listening for the music and I have an appointment with my love doctor later. So my one more move later on will be I think a beautiful dance because this conversation I think is, again, reminded me of how blessed I am and she makes the house calls and I'm going to be there and make the next move is to just make sure that we continue with what years we have together and celebrate this blessing because it's been a very special blessing over the years.

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